Advancing Women in Leadership with Kelli Thompson | 107

Welcome to Lean Leadership for Ops Managers, the podcast for leaders in Ops Management who want to spark improvement, foster engagement, and boost problem solving – AND still get their day job done. Here’s your host, Leadership Trainer, Lean Enthusiast, and Spy Thriller Junkie, Jamie V. Parker. 

 Jamie: Hey, ops executives and managers, you’re going to want to hear this episode. Listen, if you are a woman, tune in because our guest is here for you. Especially if you’re New Year goal setting – Figuring out what’s possible. If your New Year goal setting includes things like promoting to a leadership role or advancing into a senior or executive leadership role, or even just showing up and speaking up more confidently, contributing more confidently in your role. 

 Now, if you’re not a woman, that’s okay, because you still want to keep listening. And whether you have a woman in your life that you care about. You’re going to want to hear this. And also, if you are an executive, a manager, a hiring manager who wants to create more gender diversity, more racial diversity, more diversity in general among your team, or you want to create more inclusive workspaces where women can contribute to your leadership team, then you need to stay tuned as well. 

 Our guest today is Kelli Thompson, a women’s leadership coach and speaker who helps women advance to the rooms where decisions are made.

 Jamie: She has coached and trained hundreds of women to trust themselves, lead with more confidence and create a career they love. She’s the founder of the Clarity and Confidence Women’s Leadership Program and the Offer, author of Closing the Confidence Gap, Boost Peace, Your Potential and Your Paycheck. 

 Now, Kelli and I know each other. We work together with the same coach, so we were kind of in a mastermind group together with the same coach. And back in 2022, in the spring of 2022, we actually got to spend some time together in person. So we were at this retreat and we were each working on our own priorities and projects at the time, and we got to meet each other and learn more about their work. 

 And Kelli was sharing about the work that she was doing with leaders and her book. And I was really impressed then, and I continue to be impressed today. So get out your pen and paper for this one. You’re going to need it because it is packed with actionable advice. Let’s dive in. Kelli, welcome to the show today.

 Kelli: Oh, thanks. I’m so happy to be here.

 Jamie: Yeah, well, I am excited about our conversation today and looking forward to to diving in. But before we do that, I want to give our listeners a chance to get to know you a little bit. And we like to start off with a question that gives us some context of where you’re coming from. So why don’t you share with us a value, a mantra, maybe a principle or quote something that you feel really embodies your beliefs about leadership?

 Kelli: Something embodies my beliefs about leadership. You know, one of the things I think I fall back on a lot as a mantra is, you know, when I think about leadership is just simply it’s actually the title of one of my books is Just to Trust Yourself. I think it’s so tempting and so easy in today’s world where everything’s so noisy and so busy, like there’s so much advice you can get on social media. 

 You have a lot of well-meaning bosses and leaders who like to tell you what to do. And I think sometimes as a woman in the workplace, we have a lot of messages about mothering and whether we belong in the office or not or at home and what’s the right balance. And at the end of the day, I always bring myself and a lot of my clients have to just trust yourself. Not just trust your still small boys, because I know sometimes and I talk about that a lot in my book, when we kind of fall down the path of following everyone else’s advice, like it usually doesn’t take us to places where we want to be.

 Jamie: Ooh, I like that. All right. Awesome. And then just so we know a little bit more, tell us about the work you do. So who do you help solve? What problem?

 Kelli: Yeah, absolutely. So I’m on a mission to help women advance to the rooms where decisions are made. So I am solving the problem of too many meeting rooms, not having enough diversity, especially when it comes to women being in the room. And so how I do that is I offer one on one coaching for women leaders who are looking to lead with more confidence, or maybe they’re looking to make that accelerated move, that career change. 

 I also offer group programs, and so I have a clarity and confidence women’s leadership program, and that’s really meant for women who are looking for more clarity and confidence in their career so they can accelerate. But I also work with organizations too, and so I’ll go into organizations, I do Enneagram and leadership workshops. And so when I’m working with organizations, of course, I’m always talking about the business case. You’re making sure that all voices are represented in the room when I’m onsite doing corporate training.

 Jamie: So we’re going to talk about several of those areas, I think, today. And I want to start off with what you started off with, which is that, you know, kind of helping women advance to the rooms where decisions are made and, you know, for the work that the organizations I support are really in manufacturing and service operations industries. 

 And what I find is that there are a lot of women in first or second level leadership roles, right? So your team leads your department managers. You know, sometimes it’s it’s well over 50% of those leaders might be women. But then when you get into senior level or executive level teams.

 Jamie: It’s really male dominated and you don’t see that carry through. So what have you seen as some of the contributing factors, like what causes all that to happen?

 Kelli: Yeah. So I always like to say it’s probably a both and everything in life is just a both. And, and so let’s just talk about some of the data first. You know, the McKinsey, the consulting group McKinsey publishes a report every year with Lean In, and it’s called The Women in the Workplace Report. And what they find is that there’s kind of a broken rung. And so I’m just using data to validate what you just said. And they say in research that for every 100 men that are promoted to that first rung of the ladder in leadership, 87 women are promoted. 

 Now, if you drill down to more male dominated industries like construction, manufacturing, security, sometimes still technology and financial services, you’re going to see that be a lot less right. For every 100 men that are promoted, there’s going to be a lot less women that are promoted. 

 So really, there can be a couple factors at play. There is the factor that traditionally men have chosen those as career paths, so there can be more men in those roles. There are oftentimes more legacy male leaders in those roles. And so lots of times we it’s just a cognitive human bias that we like people like us. And so when we start to promote people like us, we hang out with people like us and then we informally groom people like us for leadership roles.

 Kelli: They get that informal mentoring because they’re in the meeting rooms, right? They hang out after work. And so sometimes, you know, there tends to be more men being promoted because they’re already in the room where it’s happening. And so they just kind of get some of that natural nurturing growth and development by nature of watching, you know, male leaders at the top, you know, And then I think too, then there is the other part is, yes, there is less women. 

 And I think some of the things that I see when I work individually with my clients is when they are in a male dominated environment. There’s just seems to be an extra layer of umph of confidence, of courage that they want to and feel like they have to work through to speak up, because maybe they have spoken up in a room and spoken over or haven’t taken seriously. And so that can be a big hit to someone’s confidence because then the next time they go into the room, they’re scared. They’re like, Oh, if I speak up again, am I just going to get spoken over? You know, are they going to ignore it? And then the guy next to me is going to say the exact same thing and then gets credit for the idea.

 Jamie: And so we’ve all been there.

 Kelli: We’ve all been there. And I grew up in banking and technology, so I know what it feels like to be one of the only women. And so what I can say, having been in that from a personal level and coaching women through that, it does require us to trust ourselves, like it said in the beginning. Right? 

 And not delegating out our confidence to someone else supporting us, but to trust ourselves and really to stand firm in our values, our leadership values, our talents, those unique perspectives that we bring and be able to contribute those things in the meetings, even though we might be one of the only women. So, you know, I wish there was a magic bullet, but I always find in situations like this that the answer is both and. 

 You know, it takes men at the top recognizing the the value there is in diversity organizations are more profitable when leadership teams are diverse and being conscious and intentional about who they’re selecting and promoting and developing. But also is that is us on women. When we do find ourselves in the minority to make sure that we’re holding our ground and speaking in line with our values and offering that unique value proposition that only we have to give. So.

 Jamie: Yeah, so let’s talk about that then for women who, you know, are wanting to do that or wanting to trust themselves a little bit more, they’re wanting to get into those rooms, you know, what Do you have any recommendations for? Maybe if I don’t have that confidence yet, what I might want to what I might be able to do to help build that confidence?

 Kelli: Yeah. You know, when the first place I always start with my clients is we always start with our values. And the reason why I start there is because kind of like I said in the beginning, like there’s just lots of noise and advice around how we should be and how we should act in order to be seen as a leader. And what I’ve tended to find, and this is validated by research, is a lot of those this is what executive presence looks like or this is what it looks like is still very historically male. 

 Okay, It looks strong, it looks steady, it looks unemotional. I mean, we could throw out any I’m sure you have adjectives you can add to that. And so sometimes I think what we do is we shapeshift into those molds and then we’re like coming to work, trying to be someone who we’re not. And we’re like leaving behind the power that makes us us. So where I always start with all my clients and where I started with myself when I went to this journey is really thinking about, well, what do I value? What are my leadership values? 

 So like, if you, Jamie, are in another room and y’all are talking about me, what what am I hoping that you’re saying about me? And I want you just to think of some adjectives because that can give you some clues into what you value. I talk about this in my book, and I have like a value sheet that they can download, but really thinking about what do I value at work, what do I value in myself as a leader, and what are my leadership values? How do I want to lead? So I typically start there.

 Kelli: And then we’re also talking a lot about your unique style. Like what is your unique style and how do you own that? You know, a lot of women sometimes might have been told, Well, I’ve always just been told I’m too assertive or I’m too chatty or I’m too emotional. Okay, fair enough. 

 But there’s probably something behind that that’s your superpower that like because you are direct, because you are chatty, because you are emotional, maybe it allows you to do some things that others can’t. So how do you blend that unique approach and align with your values? So for me personally, I’ve always been told I was to direct, but some of my values are love, creativity, respect and learning. So how can I be direct and respectful? Like how can I be direct and loving? And so I’m really starting with women talking about really grounding in their core values or leadership values, owning that unique approach, and then really claiming the unique talents that they bring to the organization. 

 Like what is the unique value proposition that you offer? And I often find that we can get really clear about owning these things about ourselves. We can walk into rooms with a little less compare and despair, because I don’t know about you or the folks listening, but like compare and despair was a really big confidence killer for me. And so when we really work and what I’ve seen in my clients and we can do the work to own who we are, we can walk into those rooms, we can take up space without constantly doubting ourselves, comparing and despairing or putting other people on a pedestal thinking that they know better than we do.

 Jamie: And that last part resonates so much for me. I always, when I guess on I’m always like going to therapy today.

 Kelli: Yeah.

 Jamie: Because, you know, we talk about these things and you know, it’s definitely something that, you know, today even it’s something that is very real for me and I’m sure for others that are listening as well, is this idea of like, oh, they know more. Oh, I’m making I’m almost like assuming the best in these other people and assuming the worst for me or, you know, kind of that in that compare despair that you’re describing.

 Kelli: Oh, yeah. You know, I in the book I have something that I joke about. I actually call it pedestal syndrome. Oh, yeah. And because I’m talking about it in the chapter about overcoming doubt and imposter syndrome and you know, the story that I use because I say sometimes my imposter syndrome just won’t go away. And what I realized is I have people on a pedestal. 

 And so I share a story that Michelle Obama talks about when she was on her book tour for becoming and becoming. She talks a lot about imposter syndrome, and she’s quoted as saying she goes, you know, it’s so much imposter syndrome. But, you know, I now have sat on corporate boards. I’ve been in corporate leadership, I’ve sat on nonprofit boards, I’ve been in government meetings. I’ve sat at the U.N.. They are not that smart. Yeah. And when I remember that quote, like, it helps me remember exactly what you just said. 

 I think sometimes when we first meet people and we put them on a pedestal because we don’t know him that well, or for folks who are like Lean Six Sigma, you know, like the Hippo Effect, the highest paid person’s opinion, not the data affects the decision.

 Kelli: It’s just a kind of hippo effect, the highest paid person. I need to revere them thinking they’re perfect. But what I learned being a coach, I’ve coached people in CEO titles. I have coached people that are, you know, high up in government. I’ve coached people who are, you know, people who might be revered. And what I can tell you is they come to coaching looking for answers to. Mm hmm. And I think once we, like, get to know people, we recognize, like, how they’re just human beings like us. And we’re all just trying to figure it out together.

 Like, literally we’re all figuring out together so it’s okay to take people off the pedestal. And you talked about as a quote when we opened the call, but one of the quotes I have in the book is it’s time to stop overestimating other people’s intelligence and underestimating your own. And so it’s okay. You can take people off the pedestal. Yeah. And oh, that unique thing that you bring to the meeting that no one else has.

 Jamie: So, yeah, I love that. And, you know, you talked a little bit about kind of what holds us back and how we can make some adjustments. So thinking about if we are closing this confidence gap and, you know, clear on our values and all of the things that you’re talking about, we’re making it into some of these rooms. Any other thoughts about how I can confidently contribute once I’m in the room?

 Kelli: Yeah, no, this is such a good question. So I remember I was working in banking and again, banking is one of these male dominated fields, and this was back in the day when we know we were still meeting in person and we were one of those all day meetings. I think we’ve all sat in meetings and the conversation just kind of starts to go around and around and around. 

 And like I remember being in that meeting and I was just so annoyed. I’m like, Oh my gosh, I’m like, This is going in circles. Why are we hearing from the same people? So we finally get a bathroom break. So I go to the bathroom. I’m sitting in the bathroom stall of all places, right? Just like, Oh my, why I so annoyed. And I’m like, Oh, it’s all men speaking up. And so then I was like, Well, is there more men than women in this room today? And I kind of like, just did the mental count. 

 And I’m like, No, I’m like, the men were in leadership positions even though the group meeting was equal. And I kind of got mad and I’m like, Well, why don’t these women speak up? And like, literally, it’s almost as if, like the bathroom walls came in and they’re like, Well, you could speak up.

 Kelli: And I’m like, Oh, I can’t speak up. I’m like, I don’t have enough experience. I need to go back to school. I need to get another degree. I need to work here longer. Even though I’d been there for like 12 years, I need to make sure that if I speak up, people won’t think it was stupid. And I didn’t have words for at the time, but like it was just plain old imposter syndrome. And I wish I could tell you that. I walked back into that room and I grabbed the microphone and I spoke up. 

 But let me just tell you, I did nothing. I did nothing. But it opened my eyes that day to exactly what you just said, that like, I need to find a way to speak up in these rooms. And it took me a long time to figure out how to do that. I don’t want to sit here and pretend today that, like, then I made this framework and then the next week I was speaking up like, we’re talking this is like a 5 to 6 year difference. But let me just kind of walk you through my advocacy model, because what I learned, especially when I went off on my own and I wrote the book, I’m like, I need a framework as an introvert.

 Kelli: If you know the Enneagram Enneagram five, I’m an introvert. Like, it is hard for me to take up space and speak up. So I have this advocacy model If you’re listening or you’re driving or whatever, I want you just to mentally think about three overlapping circles. And the circle at the top just is your. We start with authenticity and we cover everything I just told you on the podcast. I want you to ask yourself a few questions. 

 If Oprah sat down next to you and she said, Jamie, what do you know for sure about you? Like, I want you to really think about those things that you know for sure about you. Like, for me, I know I value love, respect, creativity, learning and direct. I know. I know some of those things about me. And, you know, another question I would ask about being authentic when you speak up is, you know, what are your unique skills and talents? Kind of like we just talked about. 

 What are these unique skills and talents that only I can bring to this meeting, to this conversation? For me personally, it was learning, Oh, I’m an expert in training and development. I’m an expert in coaching. I know I asked really good questions like I only I can bring that.

 Jamie: Yeah. And here’s here’s real quick. I want to jump in there because when I when I think about that unique kind of talent thing that you bring to the table is like sometimes we don’t see it as we don’t realize it’s unique or that it’s special, unique. We think that everybody can do it like, Oh, it’s so easy for me and don’t even recognize that it’s hard for someone else or that everybody else can’t do it, right?

 Kelli: Yes. In fact, when I’m working with my clients, one of the things I make them do is they make them get feedback from other people on their unique talents and they always freak out. They’re like, Oh, people for feedback. And then they always come back to me. I just got an email this morning. She goes, This was the exercise I didn’t want to do, but I just have to tell you that I was wrong and I’m so happy you made me do this because she goes, I learn things about myself that blew me away. She goes, My heart is so full. 

 And so I’m just validating, yes, that other people can see it. And so you were struggling to answer that question, like get some feedback. Yeah. The last authentic question I ask is what are the facts? Like, let’s always make sure we’re grounded in the facts. So what do I know for sure about me? What unique value proposition or skills do I bring to this, this conversation, this meeting, and what are the facts? That’s authenticity. Yes. Then we go to our next little circle. And this is alignment. 

 So this is the how like how do we speak up? And so a really a good question you can ask here as well, what are my values? And so for me, I want to speak up with love, with respect, maybe a little creativity, if it demands with maybe a focus on learning a quicker way. You can do it, though, especially like, let’s say you have to have a hard conversation or you’re going to be like challenging an idea in the meeting.

 Kelli: It’s just to ask yourself this. If I speak up in this meeting and I say what I need to say and from my perspective, what are three words that describe how I want Jamie to feel? It kind of takes the attention off of me and my nerves. And I start thinking about, okay, I may be giving Jamie some hard feedback. I want her to feel supported, I want her to feel informed, but I also want her maybe to feel empowered so that she knows what to do to change it, you know? 

 So I want you to think about, like, how do you want to speak up in alignment with your values? If you know your values, you can kind of think, okay, how would I speak up that honors them? If you’re not quite sure yet, just ask yourself, Well, what are three ways I want people to feel when I kind of voice this idea or speak up and it might give you a guide on how so you feel good about how you spoke up when you leave the meeting. Okay. And it really helps you speak up more with like. In alignment. And that was motive, right? Yeah. 

 The last circle is action because we can get stuck in analysis paralysis. We just try to stay in authenticity and alignment. The last one is action. And the question here is what is mine to say? Or not say. So let me just back this up. I have a lot of extroverted clients who love to use the question, what is mine? Not to say because before sometimes they’ll go to meetings and they’ll just be rattling, they’ll be talking, they’ll be doing other things.

 Kelli: I have one client. She goes, You know what? Since I started really thinking about what’s mine to contribute, how do I want to say it? And then what’s my not to say? She goes, I stopped speaking up on topics that honestly were not in my area of expertise. And then she goes, Lots of times I found that because I was always the one speaking up. I was getting all the projects but honestly were in my genius zone. 

 And she goes, Not only am I actually not getting projects that aren’t mine, she goes, But I have a lot less drama in my life because I’m not contributing on things that are just not mine to contribute on. But the flip side of that can be true based on what do I know for sure about me? How do I want to speak up in alignment with my values? 

 It can kind of give you that level of discernment to say, You know what, I have to speak up on this. So like when I was working for an organization going through a merger, there was a lot of conversations that just went over my head. But when employee training, when people when change management came up, I’m like, This is mine to speak up on because I’m inauthenticity of what I bring. I can do it in align with my values and it is mine. Speak up because I’m the expert here. So authenticity, alignment in action.

 Jamie: Love it, love it so much. And you know, especially like if you want to learn more, you got to go get the book and start to read it and really dive in. So you’ve talked here, you’ve given us some a framework and things that we can do to get into the room and then to to contribute in the room as well. 

 I want to kind of flip the script a little bit and talk about it from an organizational standpoint. So I know you mentioned that, you know, organizations benefit when more women are in, you know, these leadership roles and are more effective in those roles. But for somebody who maybe is like, yeah, I don’t know if it makes as much of a difference, what would you tell them?

 Kelli: Yeah, so here’s a few things I would tell them. If you are my client, I’m going to tell you about what some of the best practice clients do. The best practice clients always start with the data. Okay, so let’s just. Let’s just look at the data of how many people you have in what roles and what’s their gender. And if you want to go down to what’s their race, let’s just let’s just start that. Let’s just look at the data. 

 Next, I want you to look at the data of who’s being promoted. Then I want you to go and I want you to look at the data of who is getting learning and development and professional development dollars. Look at that by gender. Then I want you to go look at the data of your turnover data, and I want you to go see who’s leaving your organization and for what reasons. Like what’s the exit interviews? Do you have more women opting out? And let’s just look at the data. Let’s just see. I always love to start with the facts. 

 That’s what I always tell people to start. And here’s another thing that I will tell organizations who maybe aren’t bought in. You know what? I don’t have to go and tell you that when there’s more diversity, there’s more revenue, there’s more innovation, like Bloomberg and all these other outlets. You can Google search that and you can go do that on your own. But here’s what I will tell you. I work with so many women and I have so many conversations with hundreds, if not thousands of women at this point.

 Kelli: I can speak this for myself and I can speak this from them that if they go to your website and they see a job that really jazz’s them, maybe they’re on LinkedIn or job searching, they’re like, Oh, yes, I want this. So they go to your website and they click on the About US tab. On the About US tab, they click on the leadership team. And if they see an all male leadership team or even maybe an all male leadership team and the HR person, a woman. They will close out of your job location and not apply. 

 So there is an element of data that you cannot capture because you do not know how much talent in the marketplace you are missing out on simply because people get excited about your job, go to your website, don’t see diversity and don’t even apply. So there’s an opportunity cost there that’s probably fairly hard to measure because you’re not capturing that those lost applications. 

 But maybe that’s another place where you can look is when we have senior level leadership positions open. What type of applicants are we getting? Are we getting mostly men? Well, you know what? Maybe that can be a way to quantify, gosh, why aren’t women applying? Well, because they can’t see themselves on my about US leadership page. So that’s where I really encourage you to start. Like, let’s just start at some data and just see what story the data has to tell you.

 Jamie: So yeah, I love that recommendation for sure. And so so let’s say we’ve got a listener they like, okay, I’m, I’m in. If I believe this, I want to have more gender diversity, more diversity in general, maybe amongst my executive or senior leadership team. But but maybe when I look at who applies, well, it’s. But it’s just so many men apply. Women don’t apply. Right. So but if they really want that and they’re committed to doing something about it to make it happen, what recommendations would you give?

 Kelli: Yeah, so I have a few first things first, because I’ve talked with organizations and they look around their table and I’ve had a CEO Tell me, tell me, But what do I do with all these men that are here? They’re here through no fault of their own. They’re doing a great job. He’s like, I can’t just fire him to hire women. And I just want you to know, like, that’s not what we’re asking. Like, there’s ways we can begin to build bigger tables with succession planning without going in, like firing half your staff because they’re male. 

 So just please know that, like, let’s just level set. That’s not worth telling. Ask me about the first things. First is like we have to really understand the like probably some of the unconscious behaviors that we’re doing that perpetuate the status quo. And so, for instance, one thing that I know I’ve heard and I have a few corporate recruiter friends who hear this too, is, well, we don’t get any women that apply. So why don’t you tell me what your strategy is to go and recruit women and oftentimes, like they’re like, Oh, well, I was just waiting for people to apply. 

 And so, you know, in the same thing with gender diversity, tell me what your plan is to go to, like HBCUs, historically black colleges and universities, to go and draw from their talent pool. You know, do you reach out to them? Are you connected to their networks or are you going to their college fairs? And, you know, so I think a lot of times like we take this place where it’s like, well, nobody’s applying. Well, okay, if you are committed to creating diversity and that’s the results that you want, what actions are you taking? Yes. What habits are you changing to lead to those results? Like it’s not just going to happen because we’re like, that would be cool and we’re going to put it on our website, right?

 Jamie: Yeah. Like, oh, I’m more open to it, so it’ll happen.

 Kelli: Yeah. The other thing I would say too, is here’s something that I want you to think about if you are a hiring manager. Especially if you’ve been in male dominated positions, the research shows, is that we are more likely to hire men based on their potential. And we hire women on their results. And that actually, when it comes to black and people of color, it’s kind of the same story. So. I want you to start thinking about when you’re looking at resumes. 

 It actually could be very well true that the male candidate is more qualified because he’s given given more opportunities over his lifetime because of just hiring upon potential. So I want you to think about if you’re wanting to build a more diverse team, are you willing to hire a very capable woman or person of color whose maybe resume doesn’t look as shiny because she typically hasn’t been given those opportunities? However, you know what? Like if you’re hiring a man on a potential, what would it look like to hire a woman on potential and imagine the capabilities? 

 Because if we’re hiring a man, a potential, we’re willing to develop and groom him and develop, you know, coach him and all those sorts of things. Or what if we could give that same opportunity to a woman as well. So just little things, little nuances, little habit changes, I think. And, you know, the more we talk about this and just normalize it, that like, hey, we’ve been in male dominated rooms, it’s because a lot of men came up early in the pipeline through no fault of their own, and that’s okay. But let’s just kind of talk about the data and the conscious choices we’re going to make just to kind of just shift it a little bit.

 Jamie: Yeah. What’s interesting about that, you know, so hiring for potential is I’m wondering, as I hear you say that, I’m wondering like, you know, actually naming it, right. So if you go through a selection process kind of thing, say, okay, so what do we see as this person’s, you know, achievements or what they’ve done? But then also, what do we see as the potential? And if we look at that, if we actually do it on purpose. Right. And initially say, okay, what are we what are we seeing for potential for each candidate so that we don’t have that bias maybe happening but happening in silence or in darkness or whatever you want.

 Kelli: To call it? Yeah, Yeah, 100%. You know, I just think, you know, any time we can just really just examine our past habits and choices and behaviors, it just gives us again, I just I love the data. I get just a lot of data about what we typically do. And is that giving us the results that that we want and really thinking about, you know, a challenge question, I give a lot of my senior leaders and executives that I coach, especially ones that are leading large organizations. 

 I’ll give you an example. So I coach like a chief innovation officer. And last year her group made like 220 million in revenue, and her goal next year is 500 million in revenue. And so I challenged her. I said, Well, we can continue to coach and act and behave like $220 million. Cio but you need to be a $500 Million CIO. And so my hunch is, is you’re going to have a lot of different actions, choices, behaviors and habits as a $500 million CIO. And how do we start doing that today? Because we can’t be a $500 million CIO with 200 and million dollars habits. 

 So we got to start the habits first. And so I think that’s really the question I would encourage CEOs who really want to be more diverse is like, what are your ultimate business goals? What do you want your organization to look like five years from now? And how do you adopt those habits today and sink like that organization today so that you’re getting to the place that you want? Because I didn’t make up this adage, It’s an old adage, right? But you can’t get like the results that you want tomorrow with the habits that you have today. So it’s just just something to think about.

 Jamie: Yeah, I love it. All right. So, Kelli, before we wrap up, where can our listeners connect with you or follow you or learn more about the work you’re doing?

 Kelli: Yeah, absolutely. So a great place to find me is at Kelli Rae Thompson. I’m Kelli with an I – Rae – Thompson on my website. I’ve got a downloads tab. There’s some free stuff you can download for career, clarity, salary, all that good stuff. Otherwise I’d love to hang out on LinkedIn. I’m a LinkedIn forward slash Kelli Rae Thompson and I’m also on Instagram at Kelli Rae Thompson, so you can find you there.

 Jamie: Awesome. We’ll put all of those links in our show notes so you can go to one place and get them all. So Kelli, as we wrap up, then I just want to close out with some words of encouragement or advice that you’re going to leave our listeners with today.

 Kelli: Yeah, absolutely. So one of the things I’ve been thinking a lot about lately in my own life is the actions of confidence come first and the feelings come second. A lot of times we wait to feel confident before we take action. And so one of the things I’ve even though I literally wrote a book called Closing the Confidence Gap, I’ve been personally challenging myself to make sure I’m like living into that book that I wrote by thinking, okay, what am I actions am I actually taking? Even though I feel a lot of doubt, a lot of fear, etc., 

 Because it’s like confidence is a side effect of taking action. So I really encourage all of you to do something today that makes you feel a little scared, little nervous, little feel fearful, and just notice how you feel after you did that big thing. Oh, I love it. I love.

 Jamie: Yes. So I don’t wait until I feel confident. I go and take the action. And guess what? I feel confident after doing it.

 Kelli: I know. I know. And it’s always so scary. I’m just going to tell you, like I’ve had a sense of, like, scary emails about asking people or promoting myself for something. And I’m always like, Oh, stand. And I’m like, And after I do it, I’m like, Okay, okay. I didn’t I didn’t die. I did not die.

 Jamie: Bad. Good. All right. Well, thank you so much, Kelli. This was a blast. And you just. So many tips and recommendations. Thank you so much.

 Kelli: Oh, thanks for having me. I enjoyed it. Whoa.

 Jamie: I told you to get your pen and paper out, didn’t I? Here’s one that I wrote down. The actions of confidence come before the feelings of confidence?

 Kelli: Yes.

 Jamie: Put that one on your mirror. All right. In this episode, Kelli shared her advocacy model with authenticity, alignment and action. And a few questions. She shared that I want to call out. What are the facts? What are three words that describe how I want the other person to feel? Which I really like that one. And the next one? What is mine to say or to not say? Because then you can feel good about how you showed up. So regardless of what the outcome is, but when you walk out of a meeting or out of a conversation, you feel good that in a way you showed up. 

 Now, we also know that organizations benefit when more women are in senior leadership roles and they’re more effective in their roles. And Kelli shared some recommendations for ops executives to cultivate diversity and inclusion in your leadership team. And so some of the advice she shared was to look at the data of what’s actually happening. Recognize that there are some things that you won’t be able to see as well to understand the unconscious behaviors that perpetuate the status quo. 

 To create opportunities to hire women for potential and then to develop and groom, just like you might have done for a man. To talk about and normalize taking an active approach in shifting the gender makeup of your leadership team and the racial and ethnic makeup of your leadership team, and to start the habits first, right, to start the habits and know that you’re going to have to take action before you see the results. Now, remember that you can find links to connect with Kelli and purchase her book at our show Notes process plus results dot com forward slash podcast. And this is episode number 107. 

 All right, so with that, what about you? What are you leaving this episode with today? Write it down and then share it or teach it to someone else. All right, That’s it for now. Until next time.